1849:
September 15, Birth of Thomas
Grint at
Stoke Holy Cross
Mother: Maria Grint formerly Riches
Father: John Grint - Labour
Registered: October 4, 1949
Entry 53 - information
from file certificate
1851: Census
- Lower Stoke, Humbleyard & Henstead - Stoke
Holy Cross, Norfolk
John Grint - Head - age 40 - Mustard
Maker Journeyman *- born St John Sepulchre,
Norwich
Maria Grint - Wife - age 39 - born Alburgh,
Norfolk
Louisa Grint - Daughter - age 18 - At
Home - born Stoke Holy Cross
Robert John Grint - Son - age 13 - At
Home - born Stoke Holy Cross
Alfred William Grint - Son - age 10 -
born Stoke Holy Cross
Mary Maria Grint - Daughter - age 8 -
born Stoke Holy Cross
Frederic Charles Grint - Son - age 2
- born Stoke Holy Cross
Thomas Grint
- Son - age 1 - born Stoke Holy Cross
*Journeyman meaning: -
A skilled worker who practices some trade or
handicraft
1861: Census
- 5 Kensington Pl - Civil Parish: Lakenham St
Mark Ecclesiastical Parish: Lakenham St Mark
John Grint - Head - age 50 - Ag Labour
- born Norwich, Norfolk
Maria Grint - wife - age 49 - born Aldborough(Originally:
Norfolk - Aldburgh)
Mary M. Grint - Daughter - age 20 - born
Stoke Holy Cross, Norfolk
Alfred W. Grint - Son - age 18 - Box
Maker - born Stoke Holy Cross, Norfolk
Frederick C. Grint - Son - age 12 - Scholar
- born Stoke Holy Cross, Norfolk
Thomas Grint
- Son - age 11 - Scholar - born Stoke
Holy Cross, Norfolk
Meanwhile
Elizabeth Maria Smith Thomas's future
wife was living at 28 Kensington Place
1861: Census - 28 Kensington Place,
Lakenham St Mark Ecclesiastical Parish: Lakenham
St Mark
James Smith - Head - age 41 (1820)
- Gardener - born Arminghall Norfolk
Phoebe Smith - Wife - age 36 ( 1825)
- born Lakenham, Norwich, Norfolk
Frederick Smith - Son - age 15 (1846)
- Lab At Mustard Mill - born Lakenham
Maria Smith
- Dau - age 11 (1850) - Scholar - born Lakenham
Phoebe Smith - Dau - age 4 (1857) -
Scholar - born Lakenham
Alfred Smith - Son - age 2 (1859) -
born Lakenham
George Smith - Son - age 1m (1861)
- born Lakenham
1869: September
6th - Marriage at the Register Office, Norwich
- Number 154
Thomas Grint
- age 19 - Bachelor - Grocer's assistant
- of Kenisington Place, Norwich
Elizabeth Maria Smith - age 19 - Spinster
- Domestic Servant - of
City Road
Father: John Grint
- Shape Maker
Father: James Smith - Gardener
Witness: Robert John
Grint (Brother 1839) & Louisa Skippon
(Thomas's Sister 1833)
Entry 154 - information
from file certificate
It is noted that
Thomas was living at Kensington Place at the
time of his marriage, the same address as his
parents and uncle in the 1881 census - See under
1811- John Grint
Elizabeths Parents were also living there
so we can say virtually Thomas married the girl
next door.
Kensington Place is sited between City Road
and Hall Road backing onto Queens Road.
Thomas
and Elizabeth had children:
[1] Frederick Willaim Grint
born 1870 at Union Place. Norwich - June quarter
(4b 167)
1870:
Jul 24th - Baptism at St Benedict Tr Church,
Norwich - Entry 266
Frederick William Grint born Apr 19,
1870 son of Thomas
Grint a Grocer's Assistant and
his wife Elizabeth Maria
Frederick died in 1877
- Norwich - Dec quarter - (4b 89) age 7
[2] Hannah Maria Grint
born 1871 at Norwich - Dec quarter (4b 137)
1871: Oct 6th - Baptism at
St John de Sepulchre Church, Finklegate, Norwich
- Entry 1217 - Hannah
was baptised as Anna
Anna Maria Grint born Nov 17, 1871,
daughter of Thomas
Grint (Deceased) and his widow
Maria of
Mariners Lane
1871: Census
- Starling Yard, St Saviors, Norwich - Starling
Yard was in the Botolph Street area near Anglia
Square
Thomas Grint - Head - age 21 -
Grocer Porter - born Stoke Holy Cross, Norfolk
Elizabeth M. Grint - Wife - age 21 -
born Lakenham, Norwich, Norfolk
Frederic William Grint - Son - age 11
months - born Union Place, Norwich
Was this our
Thomas?
1871: Oct 7 - Norwich Murcury - Police
Wednesday
Stealing a Pair of Trousers - Thomas
Grint, under remand, was charged
with stealing a pair of trousers, the property
of Elijah Rust. The lugger Mary Ann,
of which vessel the prosecutor was the master,
was at the Fish Wharf on the 20th ult. on which
day the prisoner came on board and begged something
to eat. He was given some bread and cheese,
and after he was gone, a pair of trousers was
missed. On the following day the prisoner was
seen near the Fish Wharf, wearing the missing
pair of trousers. The trousers were worth about
2s. 6d. Prisioner pleaded guilty, and, having
been previously cconvicted, was committed for
three months.
However there was another
Thomas Grint living at St Stephens Norwich
in 1871 - Thomas Grint age 59 a Coachman
born at Hull
1871: November
2, Death of Thomas
Grint age
22 (Labourer) at Kings Street, Norwich.
Cause of death: Smallpox
Present at death: Elizabeth Grint, Kings
Street, St Julians, Norwich
Registered November 3, 1871
Entry 49 - information
from file certificate
Headstone
in St Martin Churchyard
New Lakenham, City Road Entrance, Norwich
Thomas
next to his sister Mary
|
|
In Affectationate Remembrance
THOMAS
The Beloved Son of
JOHN & MARIA GRINT
Who Departed This Life
2nd Nov 1871
Age 22 Years
For I was my father's
son, tender and only beloved in the
sight of my mother.
Let thy fountain be
blessed: and rejoice with the wife of
thy youth.
|
In the early and
mid 19th century skilled workers built houses
at Heigham and around Vauxhall Street. The middle
classes built houses along Thorpe Road. However,
like all 19th century towns Norwich was dirty,
overcrowded and unsanitary. There were outbreaks
of smallpox, typhoid, cholera and dipthaeria
during the century. The great smallpox epidemic
crisis of 1871-72 killed more than 50,000 people
in Britain and Ireland.
Sadly this has
brought to an end Bertie Grints lineage,
not only could Thomas not be Berties
father he was also not the father of Alfred,
Rose, or William. We can only
imagine the turmoil and hardship that Elizabeth
had to endure after Thomas's death and
what things must have been like to pull her
life together and to survive.
Bertie
recorded Thomas Grint (Grocer's Porter)
on his marriage certificate so either he really
believed this to be true or he was to embarrassed
to tell the truth.
****************************
More Information on - Elizabeth
Maria Smith
Thomas Grint died November
2, 1871 of smallpox leaving Elizabeth
a widow at the very young age of 20 and with
one small child Frederick aged under
2 and heavily pregnant with Hannah to
whom she gave birth 15 days after the death
of Thomas. This would have left her in a very
difficult and vulnerable position.
In 1871 times were a lot different,
the only support available would have been from
family and we can only assume that both families
would have given Elizabeth support. The
thing that surprise me is that she never re-married
although there was obviously a man/men in her
life as she went on to have five more children
and from the records we have at the moment she
brought them all up on her own. Was she in a
relationship with a married man?
this is my guess as I see no reason
why the father of her children should remain
a secret and this could be the reason why she
never re-married.
By 1881 Elizabeth had,
had four more children which she was bringing
up on her own. On the day of the census Hannah
was missing and despite a search of the census
records I have not been able to find her - Where
was she?
Frederic William had died in 1877 aged
only 7.
By 1883 Elizabeth had
had another child Bertie a year after
losing her infant child Annie. Then sadly the
following year her son William died
during 1884 aged only 4. In the
1891 census Hannah had returned and was
living at home and was working as a
tailoress,
In 1892 Hannah married Arthur Snelling
not sure if she left home or lived with her
mother but by 1931 at the time of her mother's
death Hannah was living at 168
Old Palace Road, Norwich.
It is very clear that Elizabeth
was quite a strong lady as in the years following
the death of her husband Thomas she brought
up all of her children on her own. Elizabeth
also seems to be self-supporting as in 1901
she was living on her own account as a seller
and in 1911 a Milk Seller. During all this time
there has never been any mention of the workhouse
which was often the last resort for people on
hard times. So how was Elizabeth financing things,
there would have been rent to pay and as we
know see quite a few mouths to feed. Norwich
was looked on in those times as one of the wealthiest
towns in England with a sophisticated poor-relief
system, was Elizabeth supported by this? Another
lead to follow up.
I can only think how it would
be today for a young lady to cope on her own
after losing her husband, followed by the death
of three of her young children all within 13
years, keeping a house going and bring up her
other children. As far as I am aware there was
no benefit schemes then, but putting finances
aside it must have been extremely emotionally
draining. So what was life like in this household?
I was 15 years old when my Great
Grandfather (Bertie Grint 1883) died,
I don't know if he just went through his life
putting on a brave face or not but I have many
memories of him and he was always larking about
and playing jokes so it seems hard to think
he came from a sad and solemn household. - Ray
Taylor
Children
of Elizabeth Maria Smith but in
all cases the fathers are still unknown:
|
Name: |
Date
of birth: |
Birth
Place: |
Alfred
George Grint |
Oct
08, 1873 |
Norwich - Dec quarter
(4b 121)
|
Rosina
May Grint |
May 05, 1877 |
Norwich - Jun quarter
(4b 134) |
William
Frederick Grint |
1879 - Died 1884 |
Norwich - Sep quarter
(4b 123) |
Annie Grint |
1881 - Died 1882 |
Norwich
- Mar quarter (4b 157) |
Bertie
Grint |
Oct 08, 1883 |
Wellington
Lane, Norwich - Dec quarter (4b 142)
|
Background Information
- Elizabeth Maria's Mothrs Side (Kitton)
|
Elizabeth's
Grandparents (Kitton)
1824: Mar 25 - Marriage Record
St John Chirch, Lakenham
Robert Kitton a widower
Mary Sargent - Spinster
Witness: George Elliott
Witness: Eleanor Sizer
RegisterNumber 227
FileNumber 1590
Robert and Mary had
children:
1/
Elizabeth Maria's Mother
1824: Sep 05 - Baptism Record
St John, Church Lakenham
Phoebe Kitton
Father: Robert Kitton a Labourer
Mother: 'Mary' now known to
be Sargent
RegisterNumber 377
FileNumber 8105
2/
Elizabeth Maria's Uncle
Robert Kitton
born ?
1826:
Nov 05 - Baptism record at St John
Church Lakenham
Son of Robert Kitton a Labour
and his wife Mary
RegisterNumber 574
FileNumber 1594
Elizabeth
Maria's Uncle married her father's
sister
To which he
and his wife (grooms sister) were
witness.
The week before
the Grooms sister married in the
same church (see below 'Ponder')
1848: Nov 19 –
Marriage record at St John Church,
Lakenham
Robert Kitton – Bachelor
age? a Labourer of this parish
Sarah Smith – Spinster
age? of this parish
Father Robert Kitton Deceased
Father: James Smith a Labourer
Witness: Phoebe Smith and
James Smith (Brides brother)
Register Number 92
1851:
Census - Magdalen Street, St Paul,
Norwich,
PRO Reference: HO/107/1813 Folio:
38 Page: 37 FHL Film:0207466
Robert Kitton – Head
– age 24 (1827) - Wool Comber
– born Norwich-Norfolk
Sarah Kitton – Wife
– age 25 (1826) - Weaver –
born Norwich-Norfolk
Eliza Kitton – Daur
– age 2 – Scholar –
born Norwich-Norfolk
3/
Elizabeth Maria's Uncle
Aaron Kitton born
Nov 09, 1828
1838: Dec 16 - Baptism record
at St John Church, Lakenham
Son of Robert Kitton a Labourer
and his wife Mary
RegisterNumber 49
FileNumber 1595
1851:
Census – Portland Pl, Lakenham
Piece: RG9/1216 Place: Mancroft
-Norfolk Enumeration District: 4
Folio: 72 Page: 19 Schedule: 111
Arron Kitton – Head
age 32 – Coal Porter –
born Norwich
Rachel Kitton – Wife
age 23 – born Norwich
Rosa Kitton – Dau –
age 4 - Scholar born Norwich
Charlotte Kitton –
Dau – age 3 – born Norwich
Ellis Kitton – Dau
– age 1 – born Norwich
Harriet Carrage – Lodger
– single age 18 – Shoe
Binder – born Norwich
George Carrage – Lodger
– age 2 – born Norwich
4/
Elizabeth Maria's Aunt
Maria Kittin born ?
Elizabeth
Maria's Aunt married - see 1851
Census below
1848: Nov 12, Marriage record at
St John Church, Lakenham
William Ponder – Bachelor
age? – a Labourer of this
parish
Maria Kitton – Spinster
– age? Of this parish
Father: John Ponder Deceased
Father: Robert Kitton Deceased
Witness: Phoebe Smith (sister)
and James Smith
Register Number 90
Elizabeth
Maria's grandmother now a widow
Robert Kitton was buried on Jun
13 1839 at St
John the Baptist Churchyard age 63 -
Entry 496
1851: Census - Lakenham Road,
Norwich
PRO Reference: HO/107/1815 Folio: 12
Page: 16 FHL Film: 0207468
Mary Kitton - Head - Widow -
age 65 - Laundress - born Mendham -
Near Harleston, Suffolk
Aaron Kitton - Son - single -
age 22 - Woolcomber born Lakenham
William Ponder - SonL - Married
- age 34 - Woolcomber - born Elfeeting-Suffolk
- not sure where
this is?
Maria Ponder - Daur - age 21
- Worsted Reeler - born Lakenham -
REELER One who operated the machine
that wound the yarn onto the bobbin.
Henry Ponder - GSon - age 1 born
Lakenham
Eliza Clements - Vist - single
- age 24 - Charwoman - born Pockthorpe
- known as St
James with Pockthorpe it was roughlyat
the bottom of Sliver Road - Ketts Hill.
The area between where Magdalen Road
and St Olives Road is today was the
site of Pockthorpe Smockmill bought
by Jeremiah James Colman at auction
in 1803. Pockthorpe was well renowned
as being a slum area full of courts
and yards stinking with refuse, full
of the unemployed and the unemployable.
Mary Kitton
were only living 5 doors away from her
daughter Phoebe who married James
Smith
|
Elizabeth Maria's
Parents
1843: Jul 11 - St Mary Church, Arminghall,
Norfolk
James Smith - Bachelor - age 23 - a Comber
of this parish - (Comber
or Combere Combed wool during preparation)
Phoebe Kitton - age 19 - Spinster of
this parish
Father: James Smith a Labourer
Father: Robert Kitton a Labourer
Witness: H Y James and W H Spinks
Notes Bride signed X
FileNumber 7235
RegisterNumber 2
This marriage appears
twice in the register signed at entry No 2 unsigned
at entry No. 6. No 2 is out of date order.
Elizabeth Maria and
her Siblings - So Far
|
1844:
Jul 21 - Baptism at St John the Baptist
Church, Lakenham
Eliza Smith daughter of James
Smith a Woolcomber and his wife
Phebe
Recieved into church July 28 1849
Entry 384 - Is
this Eliza? - 1843:
birth record - Eliza Smith at
Norwich - Mar quarter (13 255)
Eliza Died .......
1849:
Nov 18 - Burial at St John the Baptist
Church, Lakenham
Eliza Smith age 5 - 1849:
Death record - Eliza Smith
at Norwich - Dec quater (13 180)
1845:
Dec 14 - Baptism at St John the Baptist
Church, Lakenham
Frederick John Smith son of James
Smith a Woolcomber and his wife
Phebe
Entry 441 - Is
this Frederick? - 1844:
Birth record - Frederick Smith
at Norwich - Jun quarter (13 244)
Elizabeth
Maria
1849: Oct 21 - Baptism at St
John the Baptist Church, Lakenham
Elizabeth Maria Smith daughter
of James Smith a Woolcomber and
his wife Phebe
Entry 507
1852:
Sept 12 - Baptism at St John the Baptist
Church, Lakenham
George Smith - born April 10
- son of James Smith a Woolcomber
and Phebe his wife
Entry 555 - Is
this George? - 1852:
Birth record - George Smith at
Norwich - Jun quarter (4b 126)
George Died ......
1852:
Sept 19 - Burial at St John the Baptist
Church, Lakenham
George Smith Infant - 1852:
Death record - George Smith
at Norwich - Sep quarter (4b 105)
Link to 1813 to 1880
Baptism Project - Lakenham St John -
A billiant site
for local baptism records
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~tinstaafl/Church_Pages/lakenham.htm#1820
|
There are a
few Elizabeth Smiths born about this
time. We have tried two which have proved to
be incorrect. Unfortunately Norwich covered
a lot of parishes and there is no way of narrowing
things down to the Lakenham parish when ordering
birth certificates
1848:
Elizabeth Smith – Norwich – Sep
(13 248) - as Elizabeth
Maria was baptised on Oct 21, 1849 this seems
to be the next one to go for.
1849: Elizabeth Smith at
Norwich – Sep quarter (13 259) - Certificate
aquired and was wrong
1850: Elizabeth Smith at Norwich
– Jun quarter (13 257)
1851: Elizabeth Maria Smith
at Norwich – Mar quarter (13 261)
- Certificate aquired and was wrong
That's assuming
that she was not recorded as Maria Smith - see
1851 census below
- so it looks
like this is going to cost a bit!!!
1848: Maria Smith at Norwich - Mar
quarter (13 243)
1848: Maria Smith at Norwich
- Mar quarter (13 [27] 28)
1850: Maria Smith at Norwich
- Sep quarter (13 269)
Age 1
1851: Census - Lakenham Road, Norwich
- taken Sunday March 30.
James Smith - Head - age 31 (1820) -
Woolcomber - born Bixley-Norfolk (between
Arminghall and Trowse)
Phebe Smith - Wife - age 26 (1825) -
Worsted Hanker - born Lakenham, Norwich
Frederick Smith - Son - age 5 (1846)
- Scholar - Lakenham
Maria Smith
- Daur - age 1 (1850) - born Lakenham
Five doors up lived Phoebe's
mother Mary Kitton (now a widow) with Phoebe's
sister (now 1851 Maria Ponder)
We can only
assume that Elizabeth's family worked in the
Mill at Old Lakenham.
The original hamlet of
Lakenham, situated to the south of Norwich has
a rich history dating back many years. It was
an idyllic rural retreat close to the river.
It was a favoured destination for day excursions
from the city during the 18th and 19th centuries
when there were a number of ‘spring gardens’.
During the late 19th century the settlement
was also well known for its large working mill.
A map of 1886 shows that Lakenham remained relatively
undeveloped throughout the 19th century and
for many years the mill would have dominated
the appearance of the village. The mill is first
mentioned in Pigot’s directory of 1830
as occupied by Robert Hawkes & Co, wool
spinners. In 1836 White’s Directory lists
the occupiers as the Lakenham Yarn Company under
the management of Dodshon Blake. The 1840 tithe
map shows Edward and Robert Wiffin Blake (the
sons of Dodshon Blake?) as the owners. They
were using the mill to spin mohair and worsted
yarns. By 1845 steam powered looms were installed
and the mill was employing 100 males and 200
females. However, the decline in the wool trade
and yarn production meant that the mill was
last listed for this use in 1890.The mill was
destroyed in a fire on 31 March 1908.
By 1861 Elizabeth
Maria Smith and Thomas Grint were
both living in Kensington Place
Elizabeth Maria at 28 and Thomas at 5
Age 11
1861: Census - 28 Kensington Place,
Lakenham St Mark Ecclesiastical Parish: Lakenham
St Mark
James Smith - Head - age 41 (1820) -
Gardener - born Arminghall Norfolk
Phoebe Smith - Wife - age 36 ( 1825)
- born Lakenham, Norwich, Norfolk
Frederick Smith - Son - age 15 (1846)
- Lab At Mustard Mill - born Lakenham
Maria Smith
- Dau - age 11 (1850) - Scholar - born Lakenham
Phoebe Smith - Dau - age 4 (1857) - Scholar
- born Lakenham
Alfred Smith - Son - age 2 (1859) - born
Lakenham
George Smith - Son - age 1m (1861) -
born Lakenham
Age 18
1869: September 6th - Marriage at the
Register Office, Norwich - Number 154
Thomas Grint
- age 19 - Bachelor - Grocer's assistant - of
Kenisington Place, Norwich
Elizabeth Maria Smith
- age 19 - Spinster - Domestic Servant
- of City Road Lakenham -
** Elizabeth gave wrong
date of birth
Father: John Grint
- Shape Maker
Father: James Smith - Gardiner
Witness: Robert John
Grint (Brother 1839) & Louisa Skippon
(The Sister Thomas 1833)
Entry 154 - information
from file certificate
Thomas
and Elizabeth had children:
[1] Frederick Willaim Grint
born 1870 at Union Place. Norwich - June quarter
(4b 167)
1870: Jul 24th - Baptism
at St Benedict Tr Church, Norwich - Entry
266
Frederick William Grint born Apr 19,
1870 son of Thomas Grint a Grocer's
Assistant and his wife Elizabeth
Maria
Frederick
died in 1877 - Norwich - Dec quarter - (4b
89) age 7
[2] Hannah Maria Grint
born Nov 17th 1871 at Norwich - Dec quarter
(4b 137)
1871: Oct 6th - Baptism at St John de Sepulchre
Church, Finklegate, Norwich - Entry 1217 -
Hannah
was baptised as Anna
Anna Maria Grint born Nov 17, 1871,
daughter of Thomas Grint (Deceased) and his
widow Maria
of Mariners Lane
Thomas died
on November 2 1871 - Elizabeth Maria never remarried
however, she did go on to have more children
[3]
Alfred
George Grint born
at Norwich in the Dec quarter of 1873 (4b
121)
Something strange now
happens as there are 2 baptism records for
George in the same book, each very simular
but different
1876:
Jun 4th - Baptism at St John de Sepulchre
Church Norwich - Entry 1494
Alfred George Grint born Oct 9th 1875
son of Elizabeth
Maria Grint of Mariners Lane
1878:
Feb 21st - Baptism at St John de Sepulchre
Church, Norwich - Entry 1
Alfred George Grint born Oct 08, 1873
- son of Thomas Grint a Grocer's
Porter and Maria
his wife of Mariners Lane,
Ber Street.
We known this was false
information as Thomas had died on Nov 2nd
1871 - So did someone stand in and pretend
to be Thomas!!
[4]
Rosina May Grint at
Norwich in the Jun quarter of 1877 (4b 134)
Rosina's baptism
is in the same book as both of Alfreds baptisms
above
1878: Feb
14th - Baptism at St John de Sepulchre Church,
Finklegate, Norwich - Entry 1590
Rosina May Grint born May 05, 1877
daughter of Maria
Grint a
Widow of Mariners Lane
[5] William
Frederick Grint
at Norwich - Sep quarter (4b 123)
1883: May 02,
- Baptism record at St Giles Church, Norwich
- Entry 695
William Frederick Grint son of Thomas
Grint a Grocer's Porter of St Giles (
false information) and Elizabeth
Maria
Did someone stand in
for Thomas?
William died
at Norwich in the Jun quarter of 1884 age
4
[6] Annie
Grint at
Norwich - 1882 - Mar quarter (4b 157)
1882: Dec 24,
Baptism at St Giles Church, Norwich - Entry:
664
Annie Grint daughter of Maria
Grint of
St Giles
Annie died
shortly after being baptised on Dec 24th 1882
[7] Bertie
Grint at Wellington
Lane, Norwich - Dec quarter (4b 142)
1883: Dec
2nd - Baptism at St Giles Church, Norwich
- Entry 715
Bertie Grint born Oct 08, 1883 son
of Maria Grint
of St Giles
Age 20
1871: Census - Starling Yard, St Saviors,
Norwich - Starling Yard
was in the Botolph Street area near Anglia Square
Thomas Grint - Head - age 21 - Grocer
Porter - born Stoke Holy Cross, Norfolk
Elizabeth M. Grint
- Wife - age 21 - born Lakenham, Norwich,
Norfolk
Frederic William Grint - Son - age 11
months - born Union Place, Norwich
Age 20
1871: November 2, Death of Thomas
Grint age 22 (Labourer) at Kings Street,
Norwich.
Cause of death: Smallpox
Present at death: Elizabeth
Grint, Kings
Street, St Julians, Norwich
Registered November 3, 1871
Entry 49 - information
from file certificate
1871:
- Elizabeth and Thomas's daughter Hannah was
born just 15 days after Thomas died.
Age 22
1873: Oct 08, - Elizabeth gave birth
to a son Alfred George Grint at
Norwich - Dec quarter (4b 121)
There
are 2 baptism records for George in the same
book, each very simular but different
1876: Jun 4th - Baptism
at St John de Sepulchre Church Norwich - Entry
1494
Alfred George Grint born Oct 9th 1875
son of Elizabeth
Maria Grint of Mariners Lane
1878:
Feb 21st - Baptism at St John de
Sepulchre Church, Norwich - Entry 1
Alfred George Grint born Oct 08,
1873 - son of Thomas Grint
a Grocer's Porter and
Maria his
wife of Mariners Lane, Ber Street.
- We known this was
false information as Thomas had died on
Nov 2nd 1871 - So did someone stand in and
pretend to be Thomas!!
Age 26
1877: Jun quarter - Elizabeth gave
birth to a daughter Rosina May Grint
at Norwich - Jun quarter
(4b 134)
1878: Feb
14th - Baptism at St John de Sepulchre Church,
Finklegate, Norwich - Entry 1590
Rosina May Grint born May 05, 1877
daughter of Maria
Grint a
Widow of Abode Mariners Lane
Not
sure what was going on here but a week after
baptising Rosina, Alfred is baptised (above)
again this time with false information regarding
his father's name. Maybe it got pointed out
to Elizabeth that things did not look good
having children whilst not being married and
she put Alfred forward agian to prove a point
that it was only once. Elizabeth moved from
Mariners Lane to the other side of the city
first Mulberry Tree Yard by 1881 and then
Wellington Lane, St Giles by 1883. She went
on to have three more natural births.
1877:
Dec quarter Elizabeth's son Frederic William
Grint died aged 7 years - Norwich - Dec
quarter - (4b 89)
Age 28
1879: Sep quarter - Elizabeth gave
birth to a son William Frederick Grint
at Norwich - Sep quarter (4b 123)
William died in 1884 aged just 4 - Norwich
- Jun quarter (4b 85)
1883:
May 02, - Baptism record at St Giles Church,
Norwich - Entry 695
William Frederick Grint son of Thomas
Grint a Grocer's Porter of St Giles (
false information) and Elizabeth
Maria
Did someone stand in
for Thomas?
Age 31
1881: Census - 4 Mullberry Tree Yard,
St Benedict, Norwich - - -
Mulberry Tree Yard
is now the site of the Pay & Display car
park behind Toy's 'R' Us
Elizabeth M. Grint
- Head, 'Widow'
- age 31 - Charwomen - born Norwich
Alfred G. Grint - Son - age 7 - Scholar
- born Norwich
Rose M. Grint - daughter - age 3 - born
Norwich
William F. Grint - Son - age 1 - born
Norwich
Age
31
1881: Elizabeth gave birth to a daughter
Annie Grint at Norwich
- 1882 - Mar quarter (4b 157)
Annie died shortly after being baptised on Dec
24th 1882
1882:
Dec 24, Baptism at St Giles Church, Norwich
- Entry: 664
Annie Grint daughter of Maria
Grint of
St Giles
1882: Death
record - Annie Grint at Norwich - Dec
quarter (4b 99) age 1
Age 33
1883: Oct 08 - Elizabeth gave birth
to a son Bertie Grint at
Wellington Lane, Norwich - Dec quarter (4b 142)
1883: Dec
2nd - Baptism at St Giles Church, Norwich
- Entry 715
Bertie Grint born Oct 08, 1883 son
of Maria Grint
of St Giles
On Bertie's birth certificate
his father is left blank
On Birties marriage certificate in 1904 he
names his father as Thomas Grint a Grocer
(deceased)
Age 34
1884: Jun quarter - Elizabeth's son
William F Grint died at Norwich
- Jun quarter (4b 85) - age 4
Age 41
1891: Census - 162 Nelson Street, Norwich
Elizabeth M Grint
- Head - Married
- age 41 - Laundry - born Old Lakenham
- shows married & born Old Lakenham both
not true
Hannah M Grint - Daughter - age 19 -
Tailoress - born Norwich
George Grint - Son - age 17 - Shoemaker
- born Norwich
Rosina Grint - Daughter - age 13 - Domestic
Work Girl - born Norwich
Bertie Grint - Son - age 7 - Scholar
- born Norwich
Age 42
1892: Elizabeth's daughter Hannah
Maria married Arthur Snelling
Age 44
1894: Elizabeth's daughter Rosina
May married Robert Wurr
Age 45
1895: Elizabeth's son Alfred Grorge
married Phoebe Martha Bradford
Age 52
1901: Census - 32 Coach and Horse Street,
Norwich - outer city of
Chaperfield Road - Demolished in the 1960's
Elizabeth M Grint
- Head - Widow - age 52 - Seller - Own Account
- born Norwich - Own Account
means self-employed.
Bertie Grint. - Son - age 17 - Painter
- born Norwich Norfolk.
John Daynes - Boader - Widower - age
55 - General Labour - born Norfolk
Age 54
1904: Elizabeth's son Bertie
married Rose Eva Jelley
Age 61
1911: Census - 32 Coach And Horses
St, Norwich - outer city
of Chaperfield Road - Demolished in the 1960's
Reference Rg14pn11320 Rg78pn614 Rd225 Sd2 Ed31
Sn95
Type of property - Private house - 5 rooms
- Although it states 5 rooms this was a very
small terrace house
Elizabeth Maria Grint
- Head - widow - age 61 - Milk Seller
Retail - Working at home - born Norwich, Norfolk
John Daines - Boarder - Widower - age
68 - Agricultural Labourer - born Siddingham
(should this be Tidenham?) Norfolk -
John Dianes has been a
boarder for more than 10 years - is
there more to this?
Robert Wurr - Visitor (should
be son-inlaw) - Married - age 37 - Agricultural
Labourer - born Norwich Norfolk
Rosina May Wurr - Visitor (should
be daughter) - Married - Housewife -
age 34 - born Norwich Norfolk
Tom Wurr - Visitor (should
be grandson) - age 3 - Juvenile - born
Norwich Norfolk
Reginald George Wurr - Visitor (should
be grandson) - age 1 - Juvenile - born
Norwich Norfolk
The following
record looks very much like Elizabeth -
Her daughter (Rosina)
had moved to Canada a year before
1912: May 1st - Bristol to
Quebec, Canada on the ship Royal Edward of the
Royal Line. Master William Roberts
Elizabeth M Grint
age 62 a Housekeeper - Ticket No: 7181 - She
travelled alone as no other person shared her
ticket.
I have listed
some family marriages below as we would assume
that the couples would have invited their grandmother
to their event. Taking family pictures was becoming
more of the norm for working class people, could
there be some pictures stored away somewhere
which could contain Elizabeth Maria?
It would be nice to see what she looked like.
Age 69
1920: Elizabeth's grandson Alfred
George married Wilhelmina Eveline Traynor
Age 75
1926: Elizabeth's granddaughter Ivy
Maud married Enest Charles Taylor
1926: Elizabeth's grandson
Walter Alfred married Edith A. Debbage
1926: Elizabeth's grandson
Frederick Albert married Rose E. Haines
Age 80
1930: Elizabeth's grandson Athur
George married Gracie
Maria Woods
Age 81
1931: March 19, - Death of Elizabeth
Maria Grint,
age 81 at The Lodge, (West Norwich Hospital)
Bowthorpe Road, Norwich. Living at 58 Grant
Street, Norwich
Widow of Thomas Grint a Mustard Mills
Worker
Cause of Death - Bronchitis - No Post Mortum
- Certified by H. Crosse M.D.
Present at Death - H.M. Snelling (Daughter
Hannah Maria Grint) of 168 Old Palace
Road, Norwich.
Entry 430 - information
from file certificate
1931: Death
Record - Elizabeth M. Grint at Norwich
- Mar quarter (4b 232) age 81
Elizabeth
Maria lived
at several addresses during her life, here are
the one we know about, we can only assume they
were rented.....
1869: - September - City Road, Norwich - as
a domestic servant at her marriage date
1870: - Union Place, Heigham, Norwich - now
demolished - birth of her first child Frederic
1871: - 90 Starling Yard, St Saviors, Norwich
- 1871 Census - now demolished
1871: - November - King Street, St Julian -
recorded on Elizabeth's
husbands (Thomas Grint) death certificate
1871: - November Mariners
Lane - recorded at daughter
Hannah Maria's
baptism - now demolished
1873: - October - Mariners Lane, Norwich - birth
of her second son Alfred
1878: - February - Mariners Lane, Norwich -
baptism of her daughter Rosina
1880: - Mariner's Lane, Norwich -
Electors Register
1881:
- 4 Mullberry Tree Yard, St Benedict, Norwich
- 1881 Census - now demolished
1883: - October - Wellington Lane, St Giles,
Norwich - no demolised
- birth of her last son Bertie
1887: - 48 Kings Street, Norwich -
Electors Register
1889: - 48 Kings Street, Norwich -
Electors Register
1890:
- 162 Nelson Street, Norwich -
Electors Register
1891: - 162 Nelson Street, Norwich
- (a middle
terrace house still standing)
- 1891 Census
1892: - 192 Old Palace Road, Norwich -
Electors Register
1893: - 204 Northumberland Street, Norwich -
Electors Register
1895: - 32 Coach and Horses Street, Norwich
- Electors Register
1896: - 32 Coach and Horses Street, Norwich
- Electors Register
1901: - 32 Coach and Horses Street, Norwich
- 1901 Census
- now demolished, Chaplefield
Road area
1904: -
32 Coach and Horses Street, Norwich -
at the time of Bertie's wedding to Rose
Eva Jelley
1911: - 32 Coach and Horses Street, Norwich
- 1911 Census
1931:
- March - 58 Grant Street, Norwich
- (a middle terrace house still standing) -
Residence at the time of Elizabeth's
death
More on John Daynes
Who is:
John
Daynes/Daines ? - He appears as a
boarder living with Elizabeth Maria in
the 1901 and 1911 census and what part does
he play in all this? - As you will see from
above my belief is there could have been a married
man in Elizabeth's life -
Could this be the man?
In the late
1800's divorce was out of the question for the
everyday man but we can see that in 1901
John Daines was recorded as a
widower and living with Elizabeth Maria
this seem to be something that everyone was
comfortable with as he was still there in 1911.
Although the house was classed as a house with
5 rooms it would only have been a tarrace house
so it is hard to see by the people living in
the house in 1901 and 1911 census how John would
have been a boarder with his own room!
We do know by
the two census records he was born abt 1843-6
in Norfolk, his birth place has been transcribed
as Tibenham (between Pulham Market and Old Buckenham)
- The following is what I believe is his story.
I beleive this
to be John
John Daines
was born in 1848 at Tibenham (Depwade) Dec quarter
(13 35) the son of George Daines a Carpenter
and Elizabeth Morse who had married at Tibenham
on Dec 25th 1828.
1866: Marriage
record – John
Daines married Amanda Wright
at Norwich – Jun quarter (4b 155)
John and Amanda had a daughter:
1867: Birth
record – Florence Daines at Norwich
– Mar quarter (4b 143)
Florence Susannah Daynes married Albert
Barker in 1883 at Norwich - Sep quarter
( 4b 262)
A few weeks
later Amanda died
1867: Death record – Amanda
Daynes at Norwich – Jun quarter (4b
99) age 22
John re-married
1869: Oct 11
– Marriage at St John de Sepulchre Church,
Norwich – Entry 34
John Daines
age 22 (1847) a Labourer and Widower of this
parish married Henrietta Margaret Allison
(1845) a Spinster age 24 of this parish –
bride signs.
Father’s: George Daines deceased
and Christmas Allison a Shoemaker
Witness: George Dianes, and Mary Ann
Harvey
Henrietta is the daughter of Christmas Allison
a Cordwainer (Shoemaker) born at Billingford
and Sarah Bacon born Guestwick - who
married in 1844 - In 1851 they were living at
Philadelphia St Clements Norwich - Henrietta
was recorded as being born at Bardswell
John and Henrietta had children:
[1] 1870:
Jun 13 – Baptism record at St Laurence
Church Norwich – Entry 1440
Henrietta Lucy Lavinia Daynes
Daughter of John
Daynes a Brickmaker and his wife
Henrietta
Henrietta Lucy Lavinia
Daynes died
age 0 in the Sept quarter of 1870 at Norwich
(4b 115)
[2] 1876:
Dec 06 – Baptism at St Stephens Church
Norwich – Entry 1477
Henrietta Elizabeth Daynes born Oct
08, 1876
Daughter of John
Daynes a Labourer of Shoulder Of
Mutton Gd. St Stephen's and his wife Henrietta
Norwich – Dec quarter (4b 145)
Henrietta Elizabeth Daynes
married Perry Carter in 1893 at Norwich
(4b 306)
1901: Census
– 15 Burnaby Road, Norwich
Perry Carter – Head –
age 32 – Tailor (worker) – Attleborough
Elizabeth Carter – Wife –
age 24 – Norwich
Ellen Carter – Dau –
age 4 – Norwich
Herbert Carter – Son –
age 2 – Norwich
Gladys Carter – Dau –
age 1month – Norwich
Herbert Carter – Brother –
age 22 – Harness Maker – Attleborough
1911: Census
– 16 Burliegh Street, Horn Place,
Ber Street, Norwich
Perry Carter – Head –
age 43 – Tailor Maker (Barber’s
Ber St) – Attleborough
Elizabeth Carter – Wife –
age 34 – Brush Maker – Crocks
Place, Norwich
Ethel Carter – Dau –
age 16 – Boot Fitter (Harper St James)
– Lakenham
May Carter – Dau – age
15 – Brush Maker (Page Ltd) –
Lakenham
Herbert Carter – Son –
age 12 – School – Heigham Norwich
Gladys Carter – Dau –
age 10 – School – Lakenham
Sidney Carter – Son –
age 5 – School – St Julians
Norwich
[3] 1880:
Birth record – Hannah Daynes
– Sep quarter (4b 145)
Hannah Frances Daynes
married Ernest William Pack in 1903
at Norwich (4b 209)
1911: Census
– 23 Victoria Terrace, Horns Lane,
Norwich
Ernest William Pack – Head
– age 32 – Packer – Downham,
Norfolk
Hannah Pack – Wife –
age 29 – Machinist (Boot Trade) –
Norwich
Victor V Pack – Brother –
age 19 – Groom (for Doctor) –
Downham, Norfolk
Ernest Walter Pack – Son –
age 6 - Norwich
Olive Pack – Dau – age
3 - Norwich
Horace Pack – Son – age
1 - Norwich
[4] 1886:
Oct 26 – Baptism at St Stephens Church,
Norwich – Entry 526
Ruth Ethel Daynes born Mar 05, 1885
Daughter of John
Daynes Labourer of King Street
St Stephen’s and his wife Henrietta
Norwich – June quarter (4b 144)
1901: Census
– 16 Grosvoner Street Norwich
Charles M Amos – Head –
age 42 – Headmaster of Elm School –
Kirby, Norfolk
Jane E Amos – Wife – age
42 – Holme on Spal Yorkshire
Ruth Daynes – Serv – age
16 – General Servant Domestic –
Norwich
Ruth Ethel Daynes married
Stanley George Smith in 1908 –
Dec quarter (4b 357)
1911: Census
– 51 Sherbourne Place Kings St Norwich
Stanley Smith – Head –
age 26 – Mustard Miller – Norwich
Ruth Smith – Wife – age
26 – Norwich
John Smith – Son – age
1 – Norwich
1871: Census - Globe St South
Side Heigham
John Daines
– Head – age 25 (1846) – Labour
– Norwich
Henrietta Daines – Wife –
age 24 – Binder – Norwich
Charlotte Miller – Lodger –
age 19 – Binder – Norwich
Florence Daines – Child –
age 4 – Norwich
- Amanda's daughter
1881: Census
- 6, Pauls Yard, Norwich St John Sepulchre
John Daynes
- Head - Married - 35 (1846) - Brick Maker -
Tibbenham, Norfolk
Henrietta Daynes - Wife - 37 (1844) -
Housekeeper - Billingford, Norfolk
Florence Daynes - Daughter - Single -
14 1867 - Yarn Spinner - Norwich, Norfolk
- Amanda's daughter
Elizabeth Daynes - Daughter - 4 (1877)
- Scholar - Norwich, Norfolk
Hannah Daynes - Daughter - 2 (1879) -
Norwich, Norfolk
1891: Census
– 50 King Street Norwich
John Daynes
– Head – age 44 – Labourer
– Tibenham
Henrietta Daynes – Wife –
age 46 – Charwomen – Dereham
Henrietta Daynes – Dau –
age 14 – Packer – Norwich
Ruth Daynes – Dau – age 6
– Norwich
1895: Death
record – Henrietta Margaret Daynes
at Norwich – Sep quarter (4b 122) age
47
1901: Census
- 32 Coach and Horse Street, Norwich
Elizabeth M Grint - Head - Widow - age
52 - Seller - Own Account - born Norwich
Bertie Grint. - Son - age 17 - Painter
- born Norwich Norfolk.
John Daynes
- Boarder - Widower - age 55 (1846) - General
Labour - born Norfolk
1911: Census
- 32 Coach And Horses St, Norwich
Elizabeth Maria Grint - Head - widow
- age 61 - Milk Seller Retail - Working at home
- born Norwich, Norfolk
John Daines
- Boarder - Widower - age 68 (1843) - Agricultural
Labourer - born Siddingham (should this be Tidenham?)
Norfolk
Robert Wurr - Visitor (should be son-inlaw)
- Married - age 37 - Agricultural Labourer -
born Norwich Norfolk
Rosina May Wurr - Visitor (should be
daughter) - Married - Housewife - age 34 - born
Norwich Norfolk
Tom Wurr - Visitor (should be grandson)
- age 3 - Juvenile - born Norwich Norfolk
Reginald George Wurr - Visitor (should
be grandson) - age 1 - Juvenile - born Norwich
Norfolk
This
could be nothing as John may not have had anything
to do with Elizabeth's past, it could have been
a friendship that developed later in life but
it does set the imagination running as it is
the only thing we have to go on at the moment.
Recorded Deaths of John Daines
from 1911 - Could one
of these be the same John Daines (Boarder)?
1917: - Dec quarter (4b 193)
- Norwich - John M. Daines - age 73 -
born Abt 1844
1938: - Sept quarter (4b 176)
- John H Daines - age 95 - born Abt 1843
Please
Note: - This is just my own theory,
if you have another please let me know.
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