The 'Grint' Family

1908 - Ivy Maud
1933 - Terry Arthur
1934 - Hazel Grace
1951 - Joy Brenda

 

 

Thomas Grint
1849 - 1871
 
On this page, for a lot of us Thomas Grint is only part of the story. Sadly Thomas died in the November of 1871 of smallpox and it is from there that we take up and follow the life of Elizabeth Maria Grint (his wife) formerly Smith showing her incredible journey not only to overcome the loss of her husband at the very young age of 20 whilst still nursing a small child but also whilst she was heavily pregnant with another.
Scroll down or click on her name (below) for a shortcut to take you to her story.
 

Husband:

Thomas Grint  

Born:

September 13, 1849 Stoke Holy Cross
Died: November 2, 1871 Kings Street, St Julians, Norwich - age 22
Buried: November 1871 St Martin Churchyard, New Lakenham, Norwich
Parents John Grint
&
Maria Riches

 

 
 

Wife:

Elizabeth Maria Smith << - for more information on Elizabeth click on her name.

Born:

Oct 21, 1849 - Baptism St John the Baptist, Lakenham, Norwich
Died: March 19, 1931 The Lodge, Bowthorpe Road, Norwich - age 81
Buried: March 1931 unknown, Norwich
Parents James Smith (1820)
&
Phoebe Kitton (1825)

 

 

Married:

September 06, 1869 Resister Office, Norwich

 

Children of Thomas Grint and Elizabeth Maria Smith:

Name:

Date of birth:
Birth Place:
Frederick Willaim Grint Apr 19, 1870 Union Place.Norwich June quarter (4b 167)
Died 1877 - Norwich - Dec quarter - (4b 89) age 7
Hannah Maria Grint Nov 17, 1871 Norwich - Dec quarter (4b 137)

Union Place was a continuation on Union Street in the Chaplefield Road area - near this site the old Norfolk & Norwich Hospital was built in 1968 which itself has now been demolished and replaced with up-market domestic properties.

 

File Information:

1849: September 15, Birth of Thomas Grint at Stoke Holy Cross
Mother: Maria Grint formerly Riches
Father: John Grint - Labour
Registered: October 4, 1949
Entry 53 - information from file certificate

1851: Census - Lower Stoke, Humbleyard & Henstead - Stoke Holy Cross, Norfolk
PRO Ref: HO/107/1818 - Floio 270 - Page 10 - FHL Film 0207471
John Grint - Head - age 40 - Mustard Maker Journeyman *- born St John Sepulchre, Norwich
Maria Grint - Wife - age 39 - born Alburgh, Norfolk
Louisa Grint - Daughter - age 18 - At Home - born Stoke Holy Cross
Robert John Grint - Son - age 13 - At Home - born Stoke Holy Cross
Alfred William Grint - Son - age 10 - born Stoke Holy Cross
Mary Maria Grint - Daughter - age 8 - born Stoke Holy Cross
Frederic Charles Grint - Son - age 2 - born Stoke Holy Cross
Thomas Grint - Son - age 1 - born Stoke Holy Cross
*Journeyman meaning: - A skilled worker who practices some trade or handicraft

By 1861 Elizabeth Maria Smith and Thomas Grint were both living in Kensington Place
Elizabeth Maria at 28 and Thomas at 5

1861: Census - 5 Kensington Pl - Civil Parish: Lakenham St Mark Ecclesiastical Parish: Lakenham St Mark
Piece: RG9/1216 Place: Mancroft -Norfolk Enumeration District: 1 - Folio: 16 Page: 28 Schedule: 167
John Grint - Head - age 50 - Ag Labour - born Norwich, Norfolk
Maria Grint - wife - age 49 - born Aldborough(Originally: Norfolk - Aldburgh)
Mary M. Grint - Daughter - age 20 - born Stoke Holy Cross, Norfolk
Alfred W. Grint - Son - age 18 - Box Maker - born Stoke Holy Cross, Norfolk
Frederick C. Grint - Son - age 12 - Scholar - born Stoke Holy Cross, Norfolk
Thomas Grint - Son - age 11 - Scholar - born Stoke Holy Cross, Norfolk

1869: September 6th - Marriage at the Register Office, Norwich - Number 154
Thomas Grint - age 19 - Bachelor - Grocer's assistant - of Kenisington Place, Norwich
Elizabeth Maria Smith - age 19 - Spinster - Domestic Servant - of City Road
Father: John Grint - Shape Maker
Father: James Smith - Gardener
Witness: Robert John Grint (Brother 1839) & Louisa Skippon (Thomas's Sister 1833)
Entry 154 - information from file certificate
It is noted that Thomas was living at Kensington Place at the time of his marriage, the same address as his parents and uncle in the 1881 census - See under 1811- John Grint
Elizabeths Parents were also living there so in afect Thomas married the girl next door.
Kensington Place is sited between City Road and Hall Road backing onto Queens Road.

1870: Birth record - Frederick William Grint at Norwich - June quarter (4b 167)

1870: Baptism record
St Benedict Tr Church, Norwich
Frederick William Grint born Apr 19, 1870 - Baptised Jul 24, 1870
Father: Thomas Grint a Grocer's Assistant
Mother: Elizabeth Maria
Register Number 266
File Number 7921

1871: Census - 90 Starling Yard, St Saviors, Norwich - Starling Yard was in the Botolph Street area near Anglia Square
Thomas Grint - Head - age 21 - Grocer Porter - born Stoke Holy Cross, Norfolk

Elizabeth M. Grint - Wife - age 21 - born Lakenham, Norwich, Norfolk
Frederic William Grint - Son - age 11 months - born Union Place, Norwich

Was this our Thomas?
1871:
Oct 7 - Norwich Murcury - Police Wednesday
Stealing a Pair of Trousers - Thomas Grint, under remand, was charged with stealing a pair of trousers, the property of Elijah Rust. The lugger Mary Ann, of which vessel the prosecutor was the master, was at the Fish Wharf on the 20th ult. on which day the prisoner came on board and begged something to eat. He was given some bread and cheese, and after he was gone, a pair of trousers was missed. On the following day the prisoner was seen near the Fish Wharf, wearing the missing pair of trousers. The trousers were worth about 2s. 6d. Prisioner pleaded guilty, and, having been previously cconvicted, was committed for three months.
However there was another Thomas Grint living at St Stephens Norwich in 1871 - Thomas Grint age 59 a Coachman born at Hull

1871: November 2, Death of Thomas Grint age 22 (Labourer) at Kings Street, Norwich.
Cause of death: Smallpox
Present at death: Elizabeth Grint, Kings Street, St Julians, Norwich
Registered November 3, 1871
Entry 49 - information from file certificate

Headstone in St Martin Churchyard
New Lakenham, City Road Entrance, Norwich

Thomas next to his sister Mary

In Affectationate Remembrance

THOMAS
The Beloved Son of
JOHN & MARIA GRINT
Who Departed This Life
2nd Nov 1871
Age 22 Years

For I was my father's son, tender and only beloved in the sight of my mother.

Let thy fountain be blessed: and rejoice with the wife of thy youth.

In the early and mid 19th century skilled workers built houses at Heigham and around Vauxhall Street. The middle classes built houses along Thorpe Road. However, like all 19th century towns Norwich was dirty, overcrowded and unsanitary. There were outbreaks of smallpox, typhoid, cholera and dipthaeria during the century. The great smallpox epidemic crisis of 1871-72 killed more than 50,000 people in Britain and Ireland.

Sadly this has brought to an end Bertie Grints lineage, not only could Thomas not be Berties father he was also not the father of Alfred, Rose, or William. We can only imagine the turmoil and hardship that Elizabeth had to endure after Thomas's death and what things must have been like to pull her life together and to survive.

Bertie recorded Thomas Grint (Grocer's Porter) on his marriage certificate so either he really believed this to be true or he was to embarrassed to tell the truth.

1871: Birth record - Hannah Maria Grint at Norwich - Dec quarter (4b 137)

Hannah was baptised as Anna
1871:
Baptism record
St John de Sepulchre Church, Finklegate, Norwich
Anna Maria Grint born Nov 17, 1871 - Baptised Oct 06, 1872
Abode Mariners Lane
Mother: Maria
Father Thomas Grint - Deceased
Register Number 1217
FileNumber 19459

 

****************************

More Information on - Elizabeth Maria Smith

Thomas Grint died November 2, 1871 of smallpox leaving Elizabeth a widow at the very young age of 20 and with one small child Frederick aged under 2 and heavily pregnant with Hannah to whom she gave birth 15 days after the death of Thomas. This would have left her in a very difficult and vulnerable position.

In 1871 times were a lot different, the only support available would have been from family and we can only assume that both families would have given Elizabeth support. The thing that surprise me is that she never re-married although there was obviously a man/men in her life as she went on to have five more children and from the records we have at the moment she brought them all up on her own. Was she in a relationship with a married man? this is my guess as I see no reason why the father of her children should remain a secret and this could be the reason why she never re-married.

By 1881 Elizabeth had, had four more children which she was bringing up on her own. On the day of the census Hannah was missing and despite a search of the census records I have have not been able to find her - Where was she?
Frederic William had died in 1877 aged only 7.

By 1883 Elizabeth had had another child Bertie a year after losing her infant child Annie. Then sadly the following year her son William died during 1884 aged only 4. In the 1891 census Hannah had returned and was living at home and was working as a tailoress,

In 1892 Hannah married Arthur Snelling not sure if she left home or lived with her mother but by 1931 at the time of her mothers death Hannah was living at
168 Old Palace Road, Norwich.

It is very clear that Elizabeth was quite a strong lady as in the years following the death of her husband Thomas she brought up all of her children on her own. Elizabeth also seems to be self supporting as in 1901 she was living on her own account as a seller and in 1911 a Milk Seller. During all this time there has never been any mention of the workhouse which was often the last resort for people on hard times. So how was Elizabeth financing things, there would have been rent to pay and as we know see quite a few mouths to feed. Norwich was looked on in those times as one of the wealthiest towns in England with a sophisticated poor-relief system, was Elizabeth supported by this? Another lead to follow up.

I can only think how it would be today for a young lady to cope on her own after losing her husband, followed by the death of three of her young children all within 13 years, keeping a house going and bring up her other children. As far as I am aware there was no benefit schemes then, but putting finances aside it must have been extremely emotionally draining. So what was life like in this household?

I was 15 years old when my Great Grandfather (Bertie Grint 1883) died, I don't know if he just went through his life putting on a brave face or not but I have many memories of him and he was always larking about and playing jokes so it seems hard to think he came from a sad and solemn household. - Ray Taylor

Children of Elizabeth Maria Smith but in all cases the fathers are still unknown:

Name:

Date of birth:
Birth Place:
Alfred George Grint Oct 08, 1873 Mariners Lane, Norwich
Norwich - Dec quarter (4b 121)
Rosina May Grint May 05, 1877 Norwich - Jun quarter (4b 134)
William Frederick Grint 1879 Norwich - Sep quarter (4b 123)
Died 1884 - Norwich - Jun quarter (4b 85) - age 4
Annie Grint 1881 Norwich - Mar quarter (4b 157)
Died 1882 - Norwich - Dec quarter (4b 99) age 1
Bertie Grint Oct 08, 1883 Wellington Lane, Norwich - Dec quarter (4b 142)

 

Background Information - Elizabeth Maria's Mothrs Side (Kitton)

Elizabeth's Grandparents (Kitton)
1824:
Mar 25 - Marriage Record
St John Chirch, Lakenham
Robert Kitton a widower
Mary Sargent - Spinster
Witness: George Elliott
Witness: Eleanor Sizer
RegisterNumber 227
FileNumber 1590

Robert and Mary had children

1/ Elizabeth Maria's Mother
1824:
Sep 05 - Baptism Record
St John, Church Lakenham
Phoebe Kitton
Father: Robert Kitton a Labourer
Mother: 'Mary' now known to be Sargent
RegisterNumber 377
FileNumber 8105

2/ Elizabeth Maria's Uncle
Robert Kitton born ?
1826: Nov 05 - Baptism record at St John Church Lakenham
Son of Robert Kitton a Labour and his wife Mary
RegisterNumber 574
FileNumber 1594

Elizabeth Maria's Uncle married her father's sister
To which he and his wife (grooms sister) were witness.
The week before the Grooms sister married in the same church (see below 'Ponder')
1848: Nov 19 – Marriage record at St John Church, Lakenham
Robert Kitton – Bachelor age? a Labourer of this parish
Sarah Smith – Spinster age? of this parish
Father Robert Kitton Deceased
Father: James Smith a Labourer
Witness: Phoebe Smith and James Smith (Brides brother)
Register Number 92

1851: Census - Magdalen Street, St Paul, Norwich,
PRO Reference: HO/107/1813 Folio: 38 Page: 37 FHL Film:0207466
Robert Kitton – Head – age 24 (1827) - Wool Comber – born Norwich-Norfolk
Sarah Kitton – Wife – age 25 (1826) - Weaver – born Norwich-Norfolk
Eliza Kitton – Daur – age 2 – Scholar – born Norwich-Norfolk

3/ Elizabeth Maria's Uncle
Aaron Kitton born Nov 09, 1828
1838:
Dec 16 - Baptism record at St John Church, Lakenham
Son of Robert Kitton a Labourer and his wife Mary
RegisterNumber 49
FileNumber 1595

1851: Census – Portland Pl, Lakenham
Piece: RG9/1216 Place: Mancroft -Norfolk Enumeration District: 4
Folio: 72 Page: 19 Schedule: 111
Arron Kitton – Head age 32 – Coal Porter – born Norwich
Rachel Kitton – Wife age 23 – born Norwich
Rosa Kitton – Dau – age 4 - Scholar born Norwich
Charlotte Kitton – Dau – age 3 – born Norwich
Ellis Kitton – Dau – age 1 – born Norwich
Harriet Carrage – Lodger – single age 18 – Shoe Binder – born Norwich
George Carrage – Lodger – age 2 – born Norwich

4/ Elizabeth Maria's Aunt
Maria Kittin born ?

Elizabeth Maria's Aunt married - see 1851 Census below
1848: Nov 12, Marriage record at St John Church, Lakenham
William Ponder – Bachelor age? – a Labourer of this parish
Maria Kitton – Spinster – age? Of this parish
Father: John Ponder Deceased
Father: Robert Kitton Deceased
Witness: Phoebe Smith (sister) and James Smith
Register Number 90

Elizabeth Maria's grandmother now a widow
Robert Kitton was buried on Jun 13 1839 at
St John the Baptist Churchyard age 63 - Entry 496
1851:
Census - Lakenham Road, Norwich
PRO Reference: HO/107/1815 Folio: 12 Page: 16 FHL Film: 0207468
Mary Kitton - Head - Widow - age 65 - Laundress - born Mendham - Near Harleston, Suffolk
Aaron Kitton - Son - single - age 22 - Woolcomber born Lakenham
William Ponder - SonL - Married - age 34 - Woolcomber - born Elfeeting-Suffolk - not sure where this is?
Maria Ponder - Daur - age 21 - Worsted Reeler - born Lakenham - REELER One who operated the machine that wound the yarn onto the bobbin.
Henry Ponder - GSon - age 1 born Lakenham
Eliza Clements - Vist - single - age 24 - Charwoman - born Pockthorpe - known as St James with Pockthorpe it was roughlyat the bottom of Sliver Road - Ketts Hill. The area between where Magdalen Road and St Olives Road is today was the site of Pockthorpe Smockmill bought by Jeremiah James Colman at auction in 1803. Pockthorpe was well renowned as being a slum area full of courts and yards stinking with refuse, full of the unemployed and the unemployable.
Mary Kitton
were only living 5 doors away from her daughter Phoebe who married James Smith

 

Elizabeth Maria's Parents
1843:
Jul 11 - St Mary Church, Arminghall, Norfolk
James Smith - Bachelor - age 23 - a Comber of this parish - (Comber or Combere Combed wool during preparation)
Phoebe Kitton - age 19 - Spinster of this parish
Father: James Smith a Labourer
Father: Robert Kitton a Labourer
Witness: H Y James and W H Spinks
Notes Bride signed X
FileNumber 7235
RegisterNumber 2
This marriage appears twice in the register signed at entry No 2 unsigned at entry No. 6. No 2 is out of date order.

Elizabeth Maria and her Siblings - So Far

1844: Jul 21 - Baptism at St John the Baptist Church, Lakenham
Eliza Smith daughter of James Smith a Woolcomber and his wife Phebe
Recieved into church July 28 1849
Entry 384 - Is this Eliza? - 1843: birth record - Eliza Smith at Norwich - Mar quarter (13 255)
Eliza Died .......

1849: Nov 18 - Burial at St John the Baptist Church, Lakenham
Eliza Smith age 5 - 1849: Death record - Eliza Smith at Norwich - Dec quater (13 180)

1845: Dec 14 - Baptism at St John the Baptist Church, Lakenham
Frederick John Smith son of James Smith a Woolcomber and his wife Phebe
Entry 441 - Is this Frederick? - 1844: Birth record - Frederick Smith at Norwich - Jun quarter (13 244)

Elizabeth Maria
1849:
Oct 21 - Baptism at St John the Baptist Church, Lakenham
Elizabeth Maria Smith daughter of James Smith a Woolcomber and his wife Phebe
Entry 507

1852: Sept 12 - Baptism at St John the Baptist Church, Lakenham
George Smith - born April 10 - son of James Smith a Woolcomber and Phebe his wife
Entry 555 - Is this George? - 1852: Birth record - George Smith at Norwich - Jun quarter (4b 126)
George Died ......

1852: Sept 19 - Burial at St John the Baptist Church, Lakenham
George Smith Infant - 1852: Death record - George Smith at Norwich - Sep quarter (4b 105)

Link to 1813 to 1880 Baptism Project - Lakenham St John - A billiant site for local baptism records
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~tinstaafl/Church_Pages/lakenham.htm#1820

 

 

There are a few Elizabeth Smiths born about this time. We have tried two which have proved to be incorrect. Unfortunately Norwich covered a lot of parishes and there is no way of narrowing things down to the Lakenham parish when ordering birth certificates
1848: Elizabeth Smith – Norwich – Sep (13 248) - as Elizabeth Maria was baptised on Oct 21, 1849 this seems to be the next one to go for.
1849: Elizabeth Smith at Norwich – Sep quarter (13 259) - Certificate aquired and was wrong
1850: Elizabeth Smith at Norwich – Jun quarter (13 257)
1851: Elizabeth Maria Smith at Norwich – Mar quarter (13 261) - Certificate aquired and was wrong

That's assuming that she was not recorded as Maria Smith - see 1851 census below - so it looks like this is going to cost a bit!!!
1848:
Maria Smith at Norwich - Mar quarter (13 243)
1848: Maria Smith at Norwich - Mar quarter (13 [27] 28)
1850: Maria Smith at Norwich - Sep quarter (13 269)

Age 1
1851:
Census - Lakenham Road, Norwich - taken Sunday March 30.
PRO Reference: HO/107/1815 Folio: 11 Page: 15 FHL Film: 0207468
James Smith - Head - age 31 (1820) - Woolcomber - born Bixley-Norfolk (between Arminghall and Trowse)
Phebe Smith - Wife - age 26 (1825) - Worsted Hanker - born Lakenham, Norwich
Frederick Smith - Son - age 5 (1846) - Scholar - Lakenham
Maria Smith - Daur - age 1 (1850) - born Lakenham
Five doors up lived Phoebe's mother Mary Kitton (now a widow) with Phoebe's sister (now 1851 Maria Ponder)

We can only assume that Elizabeth's family worked in the Mill at Old Lakenham.
The original hamlet of Lakenham, situated to the south of Norwich has a rich history dating back many years. It was an idyllic rural retreat close to the river. It was a favoured destination for day excursions from the city during the 18th and 19th centuries when there were a number of ‘spring gardens’. During the late 19th century the settlement was also well known for its large working mill.
A map of 1886 shows that Lakenham remained relatively undeveloped throughout the 19th century and for many years the mill would have dominated the appearance of the village. The mill is first mentioned in Pigot’s directory of 1830 as occupied by Robert Hawkes & Co, wool spinners. In 1836 White’s Directory lists the occupiers as the Lakenham Yarn Company under the management of Dodshon Blake. The 1840 tithe map shows Edward and Robert Wiffin Blake (the sons of Dodshon Blake?) as the owners. They were using the mill to spin mohair and worsted yarns. By 1845 steam powered looms were installed and the mill was employing 100 males and 200 females. However, the decline in the wool trade and yarn production meant that the mill was last listed for this use in 1890.The mill was destroyed in a fire on 31 March 1908.

By 1861 Elizabeth Maria Smith and Thomas Grint were both living in Kensington Place
Elizabeth Maria at 28 and Thomas at 5

Age 11
1861:
Census - 28 Kensington Place, Lakenham St Mark Ecclesiastical Parish: Lakenham St Mark
Piece: RG9/1216 Place: Mancroft -Norfolk Enumeration District: 1
Folio: 18 Page: 31 Schedule: 186
James Smith - Head - age 41 (1820) - Gardener - born Arminghall Norfolk
Phoebe Smith - Wife - age 36 ( 1825) - born Lakenham, Norwich, Norfolk
Frederick Smith - Son - age 15 (1846) - Lab At Mustard Mill - born Lakenham
Maria Smith - Dau - age 11 (1850) - Scholar - born Lakenham
Phoebe Smith - Dau - age 4 (1857) - Scholar - born Lakenham
Alfred Smith - Son - age 2 (1859) - born Lakenham
George Smith - Son - age 1m (1861) - born Lakenham

Age 18
1869:
September 6th - Marriage at the Register Office, Norwich - Number 154
Thomas Grint - age 19 - Bachelor - Grocer's assistant - of Kenisington Place, Norwich
Elizabeth Maria Smith - age 19 - Spinster - Domestic Servant - of City Road Lakenham - ** Elizabeth gave wrong date of birth
Father: John Grint - Shape Maker
Father: James Smith - Gardiner
Witness: Robert John Grint (Brother 1839) & Louisa Skippon (The Sister Thomas 1833)
Entry 154 - information from file certificate

Thomas and Elizabeth had children:

1870: Birth record Frederick Willaim Grint born Union Place. Norwich - June quarter (4b 167)

1870: Baptism record
St Benedict Tr Church, Norwich
Frederick William Grint born Apr 19, 1870 - Baptised Jul 24, 1870
Father: Thomas Grint a Grocer's Assistant
Mother: Elizabeth Maria
Register Number 266
File Number 7921

Frederick died in 1877 - Norwich - Dec quarter - (4b 89) age 7

Age 20
1871:
Census - 90 Starling Yard, St Saviors, Norwich - Starling Yard was in the Botolph Street area near Anglia Square
Thomas Grint - Head - age 21 - Grocer Porter - born Stoke Holy Cross, Norfolk
Elizabeth M. Grint - Wife - age 21 - born Lakenham, Norwich, Norfolk
Frederic William Grint - Son - age 11 months - born Union Place, Norwich

Age 20
1871:
November 2, Death of Thomas Grint age 22 (Labourer) at Kings Street, Norwich.
Cause of death: Smallpox
Present at death: Elizabeth Grint, Kings Street, St Julians, Norwich
Registered November 3, 1871
Entry 49 - information from file certificate

1871: - Elizabeth and Thomas's daughter Hannah was born just 15 days after Thomas had died.

1871: Hannah Maria Grint - born Norwich - Dec quarter (4b 137)

Hannah was baptised as Anna
1871:
Baptism record
St John de Sepulchre Church, Finklegate, Norwich
Anna Maria Grint born Nov 17, 1871 - Batised Oct 06, 1872
Abode Mariners Lane
Mother: Maria
Father Thomas Grint - Deceased
Register Number 1217
FileNumber 19459

Age 22
1873:
Oct 08, - Elizabeth gave birth to a son Alfred George Grint
at Norwich - Dec quarter (4b 121)

1876: Baptism record
St John de Sepulchre Church, Finklegate, Norwich
Alfred George Grint born Oct 09, 1875 - Baptised Jun 06, 1876 - wrong birth date
Abode Mariners Lane
Father: (left blank)
Mother: Elizabeth Maria
Vicar: W Moore
Register Number 1494
File Number 19459
According to the above Alfred would have been 8 months
On Alfred's birth certificate it shows Alfred's date of birth as 'Oct 08 1873'

Thus the truth is Alfred would have been 18 months at this time - did anyone think he was big for his age?
It is worth saying that no father was shown on the birth certificate either.
On Alfred's marriage reconds in 1895 he states that his father was Alfred Grint a Grocer (deceased)

Note: See two items below where Alfred is baptised again in 1878, with more false information.

Age 26
1877:
Jun quarter - Elizabeth gave birth to a daughter Rosina May Grint
at Norwich - Jun quarter (4b 134)

1878: Baptism record
St John de Sepulchre Church, Finklegate, Norwich
Rosina May Grint born May 05, 1877 - Baptised Feb 14, 1878
Abode Mariners Lane
Father: (left blank)
Mother: Maria a Widow
Register Number 1590
File Number 19459

Not sure what was going on here but a week after baptising Rosina, Alfred is baptised again this time with false information regarding his father's name. Maybe it got pointed out to Elizabeth that things did not look good having children whilst not being married and she put Alfred forward agian to prove a point that it was only once. Elizabeth moved from Mariners Lane to the other side of the city first Mulberry Tree Yard by 1881 and then Wellington Lane, St Giles by 1883. She went on to have three more natural births.

1878: Baptism record - For the second time
St John de Sepulchre Church, Finklegate, Norwich
Alfred George Grint born Oct 08, 1873 - Baptised Feb 21, 1878
Abode Mariners Lane, Ber Street
Father: Thomas Grint a Grocers Porter - we know this not to be true!!!
Mother: Maria
Register Number 1
File Number 19460

1877: Dec quarter Elizabeth's son Frederic William Grint died aged 7 years - Norwich - Dec quarter - (4b 89)

Age 28
1879:
Sep quarter - Elizabeth gave birth to a son William Frederick Grint
at Norwich - Sep quarter (4b 123)
William died in 1884 aged just 4 - Norwich - Jun quarter (4b 85)

1883: May 02, - Baptism record
St Giles Church, Norwich
William Frederick Grint
Father: Thomas Grint a Grocer's Porter of St Giles - The pretence continues
Mother: Elizabeth Maria
Entry: 695
Did someone stand in for Thomas?

Age 31
1881:
Census - 4 Mullberry Tree Yard, St Benedict, Norwich - - -
Mulberry Tree Yard is now the site of the Pay & Display car park behind Toy's 'R' Us
FHLFilm: 1341469 - PRO Ref: RG11 - Piece 1949 - Page 22
Elizabeth M. Grint - Head, 'Widow' - age 31 - Charwomen - born Norwich
Alfred G. Grint - Son - age 7 - Scholar - born Norwich
Rose M. Grint - daughter - age 3 - born Norwich
William F. Grint - Son - age 1 - born Norwich

Age 31
1881:
Elizabeth gave birth to a daughter Annie Grint
at Norwich - 1882 - Mar quarter (4b 157)
Annie died shortly after being baptised on Dec 24th 1882

1882: Dec 24, Baptism record
St Giles Church, Norwich
Annie Grint
Father: (left blank)
Mother: Maria of St Giles
Entry: 664

1882: Death record - Annie Grint at Norwich - Dec quarter (4b 99) age 1

Age 33
1883:
Oct 08 - Elizabeth gave birth to a son Bertie Grint
at Wellington Lane, Norwich - Dec quarter (4b 142)

1883: Baptism record
St Giles Church, Norwich
Bertie Grint born Oct 08, 1883 - Baptised Dec 02, 1883
Father: (left blank)
Mother: Maria of St Giles
Entry: 715
On Bertie's birth certificate his father is left blank
On Birties marriage certificate in 1904 he names his father as Thomas Grint a Grocer (deceased)

Age 34
1884:
Jun quarter - Elizabeth's son William F Grint died at
Norwich - Jun quarter (4b 85) - age 4

Age 41
1891:
Census - 162 Nelson Street, Norwich
Elizabeth M Grint - Head - Married - age 41 - Laundry - born Old Lakenham - shows married & born Old Lakenham both not true
Hannah M Grint - Daughter - age 19 - Tailoress - born Norwich
George Grint - Son - age 17 - Shoemaker - born Norwich
Rosina Grint - Daughter - age 13 - Domestic Work Girl - born Norwich
Bertie Grint - Son - age 7 - Scholar - born Norwich

Age 42
1892:
Elizabeth's daughter Hannah Maria married Arthur Snelling

Age 44
1894:
Elizabeth's daughter Rosina May married Robert Wurr

Age 45
1895:
Elizabeth's son Alfred Grorge married Phoebe Martha Bradford

Age 52
1901:
Census - 32 Coach and Horse Street, Norwich - outer city of Chaperfield Road - Demolished in the 1960's
Elizabeth M Grint - Head - Widow - age 52 - Seller - Own Account - born Norwich - Own Account means self-employed.
Bertie Grint. - Son - age 17 - Painter - born Norwich Norfolk.
John Daynes - Boader - Widower - age 55 - General Labour - born Norfolk

Age 54
1904:
Elizabeth's son Bertie married Rose Eva Jelley

Age 61
1911:
Census - 32 Coach And Horses St, Norwich - outer city of Chaperfield Road - Demolished in the 1960's
Reference Rg14pn11320 Rg78pn614 Rd225 Sd2 Ed31 Sn95
Type of property - Private house - 5 rooms - Although it states 5 rooms this was a very small terrace house
Elizabeth Maria Grint - Head - widow - age 61 - Milk Seller Retail - Working at home - born Norwich, Norfolk
John Daines - Boarder - Widower - age 68 - Agricultural Labourer - born Siddingham (should this be Tidenham?) Norfolk -
John Dianes has been a boarder for more than 10 years - is there more to this?

Robert Wurr - Visitor (should be son-inlaw) - Married - age 37 - Agricultural Labourer - born Norwich Norfolk
Rosina May Wurr - Visitor (should be daughter) - Married - Housewife - age 34 - born Norwich Norfolk
Tom Wurr - Visitor (should be grandson) - age 3 - Juvenile - born Norwich Norfolk
Reginald George Wurr - Visitor (should be grandson) - age 1 - Juvenile - born Norwich Norfolk

I have listed some family marriages below as we would assume that the couples would have invited their grandmother to their event. Taking family pictures was becoming more of the norm for working class people, could there be some pictures stored away somewhere which could contain Elizabeth Maria? It would be nice to see what she looked like.

Age 69
1920:
Elizabeth's grandson Alfred George married Wilhelmina Eveline Traynor

Age 75
1926:
Elizabeth's granddaughter Ivy Maud married Enest Charles Taylor
1926: Elizabeth's grandson Walter Alfred married Edith A. Debbage
1926: Elizabeth's grandson Frederick Albert married Rose E. Haines

Age 80
1930:
Elizabeth's grandson Athur George married Gracie Maria Woods

Age 81
1931:
March 19, - Death of Elizabeth Maria Grint, age 81 at The Lodge, (West Norwich Hospital) Bowthorpe Road, Norwich. Living at 58 Grant Street, Norwich
Widow of Thomas Grint a Mustard Mills Worker
Cause of Death - Bronchitis - No Post Mortum - Certified by H. Crosse M.D.
Present at Death - H.M. Snelling (Daughter Hannah Maria Grint) of 168 Old Palace Road, Norwich.
Entry 430 -
information from file certificate

1931: Death Record - Elizabeth M. Grint at Norwich - Mar quarter (4b 232) age 81

Elizabeth Maria lived at several addresses during her live here are the one we know about, we can only assume they were rented.....
1869: - September - City Road, Norwich - as a domestic servant at her marriage date
1870: - Union Place, Heigham, Norwich - now demolished - birth of her first child Frederic
1871: - 90 Starling Yard, St Saviors, Norwich - 1871 Census - now demolished
1871: - November - King Street, St Julian - recorded on Elizabeth's husbands (Thomas Grint) death certificate
1871: - November Mariners Lane - recorded at daughter Hannah Maria's baptism - now demolished
1873: - October - Mariners Lane, Norwich - birth of her second son Alfred
1878: - February - Mariners Lane, Norwich - baptism of her daughter Rosina
1881: - 4 Mullberry Tree Yard, St Benedict, Norwich - 1881 Census - now demolished
1883: - October - Wellington Lane, St Giles, Norwich - no demolised - birth of her last son Bertie
1891: - 162 Nelson Street, Norwich - (a middle terrace house still standing) - 1891 Census
1901: - 32 Coach and Horse Street, Norwich - 1901 Census - now demolished, Chaplefield Road area
1904: -
32 Coach and Horse Street, Norwich - at the time of Bertie's wedding to Rose Eva Jelley
1911: - 32 Coach and Horse Street, Norwich - 1911 Census
1931: - March - 58 Grant Street, Norwich - (a middle terrace house still standing) - Residence at the time of Elizabeth's death

More on John Daynes


Who is:
John Daynes/Daines ? - He appears as a boarder living with Elizabeth Maria in the 1901 and 1911 census and what part does he play in all this? - As you will see from above my belief is there could have been a married man in Elizabeth's life -
Could this be the man?

In the late 1800's divorce was out of the question for the everyday man but we can see that in 1901 John Daines was recorded as a widower and living with Elizabeth Maria this seem to be something that everyone was comfortable with as he was still there in 1911. Although the house was classed as a house with 5 rooms it would only have been a tarrace house so it is hard to see by the people living in the house in 1901 and 1911 census how John would have been a boarder with his own room!

We do know by the two census records he was born abt 1843-6 in Norfolk, his birth place has been transcribed as Tibenham (between Pulham Market and Old Buckenham) - The following is what I believe is his story.

I beleive this to be John
John Daines was born in 1848 at Tibenham (Depwade) Dec quarter (13 35)

1866: Marriage record – John Daines married Amanda Wright at Norwich – Jun quarter (4b 155)
John and Amanda had a daughter:

1867: Birth record – Florence Daines at Norwich – Mar quarter (4b 143)
Florence Susannah Daynes married Albert Barker in 1883 at Norwich - Sep quarter ( 4b 262)

A few weeks later Amanda dies
1867:
Death record – Amanda Daynes at Norwich – Jun quarter (4b 99) age 22

John re-marries
1869: Oct 11 – Marriage at St John de Sepulchre Church, Norwich – Entry 34
John Daines age 22 (1847) a Labourer and Widower of this parish married Henrietta Margaret Allison (1845) a Spinster age 24 of this parish – bride signs.
Father’s: George Daines deceased and Christmas Allison a Shoemaker
Witness: George Dianes, and Mary Ann Harvey
Henrietta is the daughter of Christmas Allison a Cordwainer (Shoemaker) born at Billingford and Sarah Bacon born Guestwick - who married in 1844 - In 1851 they were living at Philadelphia St Clements Norwich - Henrietta was recorded as being born at Bardswell
John and Henrietta had children:

[1] 1870: Jun 13 – Baptism record at St Laurence Church Norwich – Entry 1440
Henrietta Lucy Lavinia Daynes
Daughter of John Daynes a Brickmaker and his wife Henrietta
Henrietta Lucy Lavinia Daynes died age 0 in the Sept quarter of 1870 at Norwich (4b 115)

[2] 1876: Dec 06 – Baptism at St Stephens Church Norwich – Entry 1477
Henrietta Elizabeth Daynes born Oct 08, 1876
Daughter of John Daynes a Labourer of Shoulder Of Mutton Gd. St Stephen's and his wife Henrietta
Norwich – Dec quarter (4b 145)

Henrietta Elizabeth Daynes married Perry Carter in 1893 at Norwich (4b 306)

1901: Census – 15 Burnaby Road, Norwich
Perry Carter – Head – age 32 – Tailor (worker) – Attleborough
Elizabeth Carter – Wife – age 24 – Norwich
Ellen Carter – Dau – age 4 – Norwich
Herbert Carter – Son – age 2 – Norwich
Gladys Carter – Dau – age 1month – Norwich
Herbert Carter – Brother – age 22 – Harness Maker – Attleborough

1911: Census – 16 Burliegh Street, Horn Place, Ber Street, Norwich
Perry Carter – Head – age 43 – Tailor Maker (Barber’s Ber St) – Attleborough
Elizabeth Carter – Wife – age 34 – Brush Maker – Crocks Place, Norwich
Ethel Carter – Dau – age 16 – Boot Fitter (Harper St James) – Lakenham
May Carter – Dau – age 15 – Brush Maker (Page Ltd) – Lakenham
Herbert Carter – Son – age 12 – School – Heigham Norwich
Gladys Carter – Dau – age 10 – School – Lakenham
Sidney Carter – Son – age 5 – School – St Julians Norwich

[3] 1880: Birth record – Hannah Daynes – Sep quarter (4b 145)

Hannah Frances Daynes married Ernest William Pack in 1903 at Norwich (4b 209)

1911: Census – 23 Victoria Terrace, Horns Lane, Norwich
Ernest William Pack – Head – age 32 – Packer – Downham, Norfolk
Hannah Pack – Wife – age 29 – Machinist (Boot Trade) – Norwich
Victor V Pack – Brother – age 19 – Groom (for Doctor) – Downham, Norfolk
Ernest Walter Pack – Son – age 6 - Norwich
Olive Pack – Dau – age 3 - Norwich
Horace Pack – Son – age 1 - Norwich

[4] 1886: Oct 26 – Baptism at St Stephens Church, Norwich – Entry 526
Ruth Ethel Daynes born Mar 05, 1885
Daughter of John Daynes Labourer of King Street St Stephen’s and his wife Henrietta
Norwich – June quarter (4b 144)

1901: Census – 16 Grosvoner Street Norwich
Charles M Amos – Head – age 42 – Headmaster of Elm School – Kirby, Norfolk
Jane E Amos – Wife – age 42 – Holme on Spal Yorkshire
Ruth Daynes – Serv – age 16 – General Servant Domestic – Norwich

Ruth Ethel Daynes married Stanley George Smith in 1908 – Dec quarter (4b 357)

1911: Census – 51 Sherbourne Place Kings St Norwich
Stanley Smith – Head – age 26 – Mustard Miller – Norwich
Ruth Smith – Wife – age 26 – Norwich
John Smith – Son – age 1 – Norwich


1871: Census - Globe St South Side Heigham
John Daines – Head – age 25 (1846) – Labour – Norwich
Henrietta Daines – Wife – age 24 – Binder – Norwich
Charlotte Miller – Lodger – age 19 – Binder – Norwich
Florence Daines – Child – age 4 – Norwich - Amanda's daughter

1881: Census - 6, Pauls Yard, Norwich St John Sepulchre
John Daynes - Head - Married - 35 (1846) - Brick Maker - Tibbenham, Norfolk
Henrietta Daynes - Wife - 37 (1844) - Housekeeper - Billingford, Norfolk
Florence Daynes - Daughter - Single - 14 1867 - Yarn Spinner - Norwich, Norfolk - Amanda's daughter
Elizabeth Daynes - Daughter - 4 (1877) - Scholar - Norwich, Norfolk
Hannah Daynes - Daughter - 2 (1879) - Norwich, Norfolk

1891: Census – 50 King Street Norwich
John Daynes – Head – age 44 – Labourer – Tibenham
Henrietta Daynes – Wife – age 46 – Charwomen – Dereham
Henrietta Daynes – Dau – age 14 – Packer – Norwich
Ruth Daynes – Dau – age 6 – Norwich

1895: Death record – Henrietta Margaret Daynes at Norwich – Sep quarter (4b 122) age 47

1901: Census - 32 Coach and Horse Street, Norwich
Elizabeth M Grint - Head - Widow - age 52 - Seller - Own Account - born Norwich
Bertie Grint. - Son - age 17 - Painter - born Norwich Norfolk.
John Daynes - Boarder - Widower - age 55 (1846) - General Labour - born Norfolk

1911: Census - 32 Coach And Horses St, Norwich
Elizabeth Maria Grint - Head - widow - age 61 - Milk Seller Retail - Working at home - born Norwich, Norfolk
John Daines - Boarder - Widower - age 68 (1843) - Agricultural Labourer - born Siddingham (should this be Tidenham?) Norfolk
Robert Wurr - Visitor (should be son-inlaw) - Married - age 37 - Agricultural Labourer - born Norwich Norfolk
Rosina May Wurr - Visitor (should be daughter) - Married - Housewife - age 34 - born Norwich Norfolk
Tom Wurr - Visitor (should be grandson) - age 3 - Juvenile - born Norwich Norfolk
Reginald George Wurr - Visitor (should be grandson) - age 1 - Juvenile - born Norwich Norfolk

This could be nothing as John may not have had anything to do with Elizabeth's past, it could have been a friendship that developed later in life but it does set the imagination running as it is the only thing we have to go on at the moment.

Recorded Deaths of John Daines from 1911 - Could one of these be the same John Daines (Boarder)?
1917: - Dec quarter (4b 193) - Norwich - John M. Daines - age 73 - born Abt 1844
1938: - Sept quarter (4b 176) - John H Daines - age 95 - born Abt 1843

Please Note: - This is just my own theory, if you have another please let me know.

 

 

 
 
   

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